{"id":10573,"date":"2017-02-07T13:33:35","date_gmt":"2017-02-07T19:33:35","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/?p=10573"},"modified":"2017-03-24T10:21:09","modified_gmt":"2017-03-24T15:21:09","slug":"conversation-56","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/conversation-56\/","title":{"rendered":"Conversation #56: Ross Louis on the Monument Crisis"},"content":{"rendered":"

Download Conversation #56<\/a><\/p>\n

http:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/podcast\/audio\/tlee056.mp3<\/a><\/audio>
\n\"RossA conversation with Ross Louis<\/a> of Xavier's Communication Studies<\/a> department on service learning.<\/p>\n

Ross Louis joined the Communication Studies program at Xavier in 2003 and teaches courses from a performance studies perspective. He is the co-founder of the Performance Studies Laboratory at Xavier University of Louisiana. Recent projects include This Other World (a site-specific performance of Richard Wright\u2019s haiku) and \u201cPerforming Presence in the Haiku Moment\u201d (forthcoming in Text and Performance Quarterly<\/em>).<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

<\/p>\n

Transcript<\/strong><\/p>\n

Jeremy Tuman<\/b>: This is Jeremy Tuman of CAT+ Faculty Development here at Xavier. I\u2019m sitting with Ross Louis of the Communication Studies department.<\/span><\/p>\n

Ross Louis<\/b>: Thanks for having me Jeremy. I look forward to having a conversation with you about service learning. <\/span><\/p>\n

Jeremy Tuman<\/b>: Let\u2019s begin. Tell us a little about the current service learning course you teach. <\/span><\/p>\n

Ross Louis<\/b>: I\u2019m teaching the spring semester of an Honors Public Speaking class. It\u2019s a class that we\u2019ve taught a Xavier since before Katrina, so 2004 is when we introduced it. We introduced an Honors version of Public Speaking because we wanted to test the idea that Public Speaking has relevance in society. Rather than increase the number of presentations or the difficulty of the speeches, we decided that honors would note public speaking courses that take public speaking and apply them to a community need through a service learning project. Every semester we teach one to two sections of honors public speaking and the service learning projects have evolved over time. Often, the service learning projects and the students\u2019 speeches, themselves, focus on a particular issue that is relevant to a community partner. This semester the course is addressing a theme we\u2019re calling democratic participation and the monument controversy. The course is responding to this ongoing controversy in New Orleans. It was most recently introduced after the Charleston, South Carolina murders in an African American church by white supremacies. Following those shootings are Mayor Mitchell Andrew\u2019s response to a jazz musician, Marcalis who mentioned that we have racist monuments here in New Orleans. The Mayor then suggested that monuments be taken down in New Orleans. That became the resurrection of an ongoing discussion protest around the presence of civil war era,historical figures, and events that have been linked to racism, genocide, white supremacy, etc. I was directly inspired by the activist group, Take Em Down NOLA and looking through the actions that they proposed, how they used public discourse, how they used speeches, how they used written rhetoric, how they used visual rhetoric. I also had been inspired by a text that I\u2019ve been playing with over the last semester. Which takes public speaking and asks the question, \u201cWhat does public speaking mean for democratic participation at a time when public discourse is at best wrought\u00a0with division?\u201d These authors of this textbook take the idea that public speaking is consequential. It has been. Our American higher education use of public speaking is an important skill. It sort of goes back to classical Greek rhetoric and the study of Greek rhetoric is embedded in what it means to be a Greek participant. The authors are asking this question, \u201cWhat is our contemporary relevance?\u201d They\u2019re using cases of political divisiveness, both in the United States and globally. One of the things that they do is that they look at a form of public speaking called deliberative presentation where they take a controversial issue, which \u00a0they\u2019re defining as an issue that implicates a public that has not been resolved, and they\u2019re asking speakers to consider a minimum of three positions to that controversy. They argue that every controversy, however bifurcated it \u00a0may seem, can be complicated to include not just us versus them, \u00a0for, against, right, left, but when you start teasing out the right\u2019s position, the left's position, there are variations there. They\u2019re not seeking middle ground at all. They\u2019re seeking to complicate the debate that we\u2019re having around controversial issues. We\u2019re applying that approach. Essentially, what we\u2019re doing is a partnership with five high schools in New Orleans. We have this ongoing event that has been used over the past three or four years on a public speaking class that allows us to vary by theme and partner and it\u2019s called Say NOLA, which is a name students came up with to define a public speaking event that asks college and high school students to come together, listen to dynamic speakers, and split into groups and have conversations, debates, discussions about that issue with ultimate goal of raising awareness about the issue and engaging democratic participants in democratic participation. In the past, depending on the issue, we would invite certain speakers. We might partner with a community organization. For example, last year when we did this, we partnered with the Louisiana Bucket Brigade, who helped us coordinate speakers addressing environmental racism and environmental justice and try to raise awareness about those issues historically and contemporary in the New Orleans semester. In this semester, we\u2019re working with NOCCA. We\u2019re working with students who will partner with Xavier students in facilitating small discussion groups. We\u2019ll have about 120 high school students from St. Augustine, St. Mary\u2019s, St. Katharine Drexel Prep, and McDonough 35 as well as NOCCA and Xavier students coming together to address these issues of what we\u2019re calling the monuments crisis. Xavier students will frame the historical context and talk about what\u2019s been said, done, and legally decided here in New Orleans, for example, the Robert E. Lee monument, the Jefferson Davis monument, the White League monument, Beauregard monument, and frame that historically and contemporarily. Then, they\u2019re going to cite solution A, solution B, solution C, that have been proposed by groups. Right now, when you think about this, Take Em Down NOLA who is saying take down these monuments and replace them with. Then, there\u2019s a number of groups who\u2019ve fought Take Em Down NOLA and the city council and the mayor in court, Save Our Circle, a group that\u2019s associated with families and descendants of confederate veterans. They\u2019re simply saying keep them. We\u2019re looking for, also, other suggestions that have been made. We\u2019re not framing Team A and Team B and choose a side, but framing strategies that have been suggested. What are the strengths and weaknesses? What values are they based on? Who wins? Who loses? Who gains? What ideologies are promoted? Why one particular position? We\u2019re asking the students having heard these three short presentations, hopefully, dynamic delivered by \u00a0Xavier students and high school students to work in small groups to go through a process called deliberative discussion. They\u2019re asked to evaluate these various positions and to argue with each other and determine what is it that they believe ought to be done given the positions they\u2019re presented. If they can come to agreement on what they think should be done in a small group, what\u2019s the next action to be taken? If they don\u2019t come to an agreement, where do they disagree? That becomes this moment of pause completion. It\u2019s sort of like, \u201cOkay, so what we\u2019ve learned over this hour is that these are the main things that we disagree on.\u201d or \u201cWe agree on these issues. Therefore, our next step ought be\u2026\u201d Our goal is to raise awareness to the historical debate that has gone on for some time around these monuments as well as to teach and experiment with what deliberative discussion looks like and feels like in an explicit goal of teaching democratic participation as a deliberative process which requires ethical listening, which requires critiquing a position you hold near and dear, which requires finding rational logic based reasons why you disagree with positions that you find deplorable and asking young people to do that in conjunction across campuses. We originally wanted to it as a multiracial audience as well. The racial makeup of the high school audiences will largely be African American, but there will also be present white students as well. It should be interesting. It\u2019s not as racially balanced as I would've liked based on the schools we\u2019ve historically worked with. There\u2019s a number of possibilities that might come out of this talking about race in the time of this country is relevant and particularly salient post-election of Trump, etc. It\u2019s a lot of long-winded synopsis project. <\/span><\/p>\n

Jeremy Tuman:<\/b> This skill delivery of discussion that you\u2019re bringing to these high school students, is this something you feel that they\u2019re not introduced to, not getting through traditional K12 education? Do you feel like you\u2019re more supplementing, augmenting with what they do get? Where does what your students bring to the high school students fit into their overall education?<\/span><\/p>\n

Ross Louis:<\/b> Yeah, I can\u2019t speak to what they\u2019re getting or not getting. I think that\u2019s actually a suggestion for future projects that we do if we\u2019re valuing this process of deliberative discussion. Is it what you asked? What is augmenting substituting for? That\u2019s not something we absolutely consider? For me, my thought was the issue itself. These monuments have been called anything from \u201cwhite supremacists\u201d to \u201ctradition,\u201d \u201cSouthern tradition.\u201d Bringing awareness to the history, the history debate, and the history of the discourse to me is important. I can\u2019t say yet whether it replaces or supplements something missing in historical instruction in K-12 schools. I do know our primary partner for this year, NOCCA, \u00a0has said this stuff tells really nicely with the history that we do for junior levels, like 11th grade students, among surrounding civil war and pre-civil war, civil war and reconstruction, the historical work. In terms of deliberative discourse, my own understanding of public schools in New Orleans and the state of Louisiana is there\u2019s not an oral communication course that\u2019s required. It might be offered, but those courses look a lot like those in colleges. They require the ability to do a research based informative speech to make an argument and support with evidence. So, persuasive speech, informative speech, a narrative speech, focuses on delivery techniques. Often times, this is an argument that we make for teaching this class in the department of communication studies. Those courses, like many required general composition based courses, can feel as if they\u2019re happening in a vacuum separate from a world that is consequential. The idea of deliberative discussion for me is, if anything else, this is not a practice exercise. To participate in debate is meaningful. I would say even more meaningful at a time of post-election when terms of patriotism are being used to label certain groups of people and the questions of participating and protests.Using discourse in the public format to express decent, respectfully or not, is being called into question. It\u2019s being called into question at the highest level by the President of the United States where states are introducing legislation, whether it succeeds or not, to inhibit American citizens opportunity to decent in public to use public discourse. To me, for those reasons, even if deliberative discussion is embedded into high school curriculum, this would \u00a0allow them to do it around an issue that they visually see everyday and to me those are good practices citizenly.To be a democratic participant in a democracy that\u2019s fraught with always is ethical imperative. <\/span><\/p>\n

Jeremy Tuman:<\/b> Very good. It seems like this course really fills a community need on several levels with the delivery of discourse as one goal or one outcome, but addressing this debate of the monuments and engaging young citizens with the debate is another community need. It seems like it\u2019s really meaningful with how it engages with the community. Talk for a minute about your students, the Xavier students and their outcomes and maybe how you see these experiences and the skills built in this class form their careers or lives. <\/span><\/p>\n

Ross Louis:<\/b> I guess continue with the idea that facilitating these conversations means that they have to participate in them themselves even as temporary residents of this city which has controversial monuments, monuments that have been linked to white supremacy. Participating in public discourse around a controversy, I hope would be training for being citizens in the world whether that happens to be in New Orleans, in the United States, or elsewhere. To me, the competency or the training is connected to participation. Participation, for me, feels sometimes or often challenging because it feels hopeless at times. Particularly, in our sort of ??? of slacktivism and online activism, petition signing and use of social media, all of which I think serve positive functions for awareness raising and mobilizing actual bodies on the ground. To think critically about when is public discourse is productive and to whom and what ends, when is public discourse unproductive and who says so, what means and methods can we use if we are going to talk about taking down these monuments and there\u2019s a solution to physically take them down outside of some official sanction \u201cTake them down\u201d or a council ordinance. Those are actual moves made in the public framed by public discourse. We need to frame whether that\u2019s efficient, effective, ethical when ethics change based on what groups are listened and what are not. Those are often based on race and gender. For me, it goes back to this idea of citizen training and I don\u2019t think that it\u2019s absent at a school like Xavier or other institutions. I\u2019m not claiming that. It\u2019s my 2017 citizenship reaction to being in the world. My employment involves teaching. I\u2019m perfectly fine with politicizing teaching because it\u2019s almost always politicized. We serve something, whether it\u2019s economic reproduction or ideological reproduction. Whether we deny it or not, it exists. If anything else, it\u2019s like participate. Feel what it is to participate. Feel what it is to let others participate. Feel struggle. Feel success. Feel failure. Make decisions on this issue for yourself. Decide to follow up on this issue for yourself and see where it takes you. It might move you away from future activities like that but it\u2019s your body that\u2019s been there to experience and say, \u201cI want to do that, follow that pathway.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n

Jeremy Tuman:<\/b> Maybe follow up on some of your student specific moves and the reactions. Have you seen them become passionate, become engaged? Have you seen students withdraw from the issue? What have been some of the reactions? <\/span><\/p>\n

Ross Louis:<\/b> So the class caps at 18 students and we had 17 or 18 students and we\u2019re at 14. This is week 3 of the class. This moment of our conversation. In probably three quarters of the way through the semester, we\u2019ll have this event. We\u2019re building to this event. The students we\u2019re told on the first day that this is our project. This is the theme. This is what these monuments are. This is the process that we\u2019re going to pursue. To take that seriously is something that you want to consider. 3 or 4 out of 18 dropped. I don\u2019t know if that was because of the project or because of service learning or something else, but I welcome those decisions. Once we started to talk, I asked students to do some basic research on using local news databases to find out what have journalists said, what have these groups representing different perspectives said. We haven\u2019t done full blown research on the historical perspectives on who these monuments represent etc. Then, where do you stand on this issue? \u00a0I have an entirely African American audience that seems to be natives of New Orleans, natives of the South that is not New Orleans, and some that are outside of the state. I was initially surprised that 2 to 3 students, maybe 4, out of 14 or 15 already knew Take Em Down NOLA. Some knew the history of the neighborhoods of which the monuments had been place in. I know Xavier students have been active in Take Em Down NOLA. \u00a0Some students have already said, \u201cI have an allegiance to Take Em Down NOLA. These are white supremacist statues.\u201d That didn\u2019t surprise me. What surprised me was that they were already familiar with an active organization, who\u2019s been active and named in the last 18 months. That was encouraging because they invest in the issue. It also raises the opportunity for them to already joined a perspective or a side. By the nature of this process, we\u2019ll be required to present information that critiques a perspective that they already endorse and support, then presents strengths and weaknesses,investigates the values, and talks one on one if we\u2019re able to secure conversation and interviews with people who are attempting to save what they\u2019re calling \u201cwhite supremacist monuments\u201d and what our students would call. \u00a0They\u2019re having engage the other and as well as critique their own positions. I found these interesting moments. Nonverbally, I\u2019m watching conversations where it\u2019s like \u201cWow, you\u2019re asking me to find what the authors of our text are calling characteristics of unproductive discourse, which might include things like divisiveness and lack of listening and a tendency to winning.\u201d They\u2019re analyzing rhetorical discourse that\u2019s offered by Take Em Down NOLA. There\u2019s this moments where students who have said, \u201cI believe these are racist white supremacist monuments. I believe Take Em Down NOLA is correct.\u201d At the same time, if I\u2019m asked to attach these unproductive discourse characteristics to that rhetoric, I see connections of that. By this definition, it\u2019s unproductive. So at that moment, there\u2019s this moment where it\u2019s sort of like, \u201cHm, how can something be unproductive that I believe in?\u201d Then we\u2019re able to look at the category, unproductive. Who says that these unproductive characteristics are in fact, unproductive? Unproductive for whom? For what? Then, we talk a little bit about how do we define productive and unproductive. What\u2019s the productive use of anger? What\u2019s the productive use of physical demonstration? Of exaggeration? Both rhetorical strategy, but as a strategy to provoke conversation. Does it shut down conversation? But it\u2019s interesting to watch. I most interested to watch emotional reactions that we have and our attempts to apply logos, the use of reasoning and arguments and evidence. I think that \u00a0there\u2019s a lot of name calling on both sides and they\u2019re already looking at internet trolls on both sides of the debate. Largely racists to trolls. So, name-calling is easy to define. Okay, it\u2019s unproductive. It takes us away from the issue and towards labels. If those labels are accurate, what do we do with that? It\u2019s difficult for me to remind myself \u00a0to say, \u201cOkay, the process is productive,\u201d or \u201cThe process has value\u201d \u00a0at the moments when what I most want as a citizen is different than what i might want as a teacher. What I want as a citizen is different. I have a particular stake in this. I want a particular action taken. I\u2019ve acknowledged that. This is me. Our reactions are what I\u2019m interested to watch, especially, because they\u2019re supposed to be facilitators. <\/span><\/p>\n

Jeremy Tuman<\/b>: Sounds like some really interesting outcomes that will only become more interesting as you get further in. To finish, I know you\u2019ve been involved with service learning at Xavier for a long time. Talk for a minute, if you would, about the progression you\u2019ve seen in your years involved with service learning at Xavier. Your perceptions of service learning on campus.<\/span><\/p>\n

Ross Louis:<\/b> I think this probably speaks on other places as well. What I\u2019ve watched and appreciated is faculty members as members of communities, of New Orleans, of Xavier following projects that largely follow their activist interests. Sometimes their communities, sometimes groups they\u2019ve advocated for before or issues that concern them and, then, thinking through ways that those issues communities need to be addressed, social inequalities etc. It might connect back to the discipline that they\u2019re working in. That\u2019s sort of my bias but I\u2019ve watched others. I\u2019ve encountered faculty members off campus, working with an organization that I\u2019ve worked with. The Louisiana Bucket Brigade, for example, like \u201cOkay so you\u2019re personally engaged with environmental activism.\u201d Now it makes sense how you\u2019re trying to tie it back to this particular science course, this communication course. I think it\u2019s an useful way in which our service learning at Xavier, and other places, can benefit the community, as we think about that traditional idea of collaboration and who benefits. Students getting an academic learning outcome and getting a credit of citizenship on their resumes and things like that or is it skewed towards addressing a certain problem. I would always, always air in the side, community need because I feel like the university is always already one up in the power dynamic. I think there always is the power. If faculty are always following-- and I think they always are. I think it\u2019s selfish of us and self-centered. It\u2019s like okay I\u2019m interested in that issue. Issue A matters to me. Issue B not so much. What that creates is projects and faculty and partnerships that are more sincere. Faculty are concerned about the community outcome, which is a vague term. The concrete result of working in that place and in that issue, hopefully, will build sustaining relationships. Because, it\u2019s driven by its investment. \u00a0That\u2019s kind of what I watched.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jeremy Tuman<\/b>: That speaks to the benefits to the faculty of service learning projects and development as well. Thank you for your time. <\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Download Conversation #56 A conversation with Ross Louis of Xavier's Communication Studies department on service learning. Ross Louis joined the Communication Studies program at Xavier in 2003 and teaches courses from a performance studies perspective. He is the co-founder of the Performance Studies Laboratory at Xavier University of Louisiana. Recent projects include This Other World ...continue reading \"Conversation #56: Ross Louis on the Monument Crisis\"<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":true,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[9],"tags":[227,282,392],"class_list":{"0":"post-10573","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","6":"category-podcast","7":"tag-new-orleans","8":"tag-service-learning","9":"tag-takeemdownnola","10":"h-entry","11":"hentry","12":"h-as-article"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p82MQk-2Kx","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":5008,"url":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/conversation-28\/","url_meta":{"origin":10573,"position":0},"title":"Conversation #28: Service Learning","author":"Bart Everson","date":"December 9, 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"Download Conversation #28 A conversation with Jeremy Tuman of Xavier University of Louisiana on teaching, learning and service learning. Ultimately I think a transformative experience is one in which students internalize the idea that reality is not fixed \u2014 that all of these social problems are products, by-products, results of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Old Podcast Archive (\u22642018)"","block_context":{"text":"Old Podcast Archive (\u22642018)","link":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/topic\/podcast\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":10686,"url":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/skittles-kites-and-the-concept-of-pi\/","url_meta":{"origin":10573,"position":1},"title":"Skittles, Kites, and the Concept of Pi.","author":"Jeremy Tuman","date":"April 4, 2017","format":false,"excerpt":"This semester Dr. Treva Lee, Xavier's\u00a0Director for Institutional Compliance and Planning Initiatives, led a class of first-year students in a service-learning project to mentor local youths in the concept of Pi. On Saturday, March 11, thirty\u00a0Xavier students joined twenty\u00a0other community volunteers and twenty\u00a0local professionals serving as mentors to teach and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Service Learning Lynx"","block_context":{"text":"Service Learning Lynx","link":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/topic\/service\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/IMG_7138.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":20406,"url":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/new-certified-part-time-instructor\/","url_meta":{"origin":10573,"position":2},"title":"New Certified Part-time Instructor!","author":"Jeremy Tuman","date":"May 9, 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"The end of the spring semester, 2024, marks the completion of the first year of CAT+FD's pilot program to support part-time instructors at Xavier. As you know these teachers do excellent work here in teaching, scholarship, and service, and they increasingly make up a significant portion of our teaching rosters.\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"Dr. Melissa Lea","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/lea-melissa.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":19481,"url":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/new-members-of-the-catfd-team\/","url_meta":{"origin":10573,"position":3},"title":"New Members of the CAT+FD Team","author":"Bart Everson","date":"June 16, 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"We are delighted to announce our new Faculty-in-Residence. Faculty-in-Residence for New Faculty Support Raven Jackson is a Clinical Associate Professor in the College of Pharmacy. She has served the university for 7 years as a faculty member within the College, a member and leader on several committees, and a strong\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "General Housekeeping"","block_context":{"text":"General Housekeeping","link":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/topic\/housekeeping\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Raven-Jackson.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":10514,"url":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/flint-steel-and-social-justice\/","url_meta":{"origin":10573,"position":4},"title":"Flint, Steel, and Social Justice","author":"Jeremy Tuman","date":"January 10, 2017","format":false,"excerpt":"Last fall, Xavier faculty member Dr. Mark Gstohl, of the Department of Theology, led an interesting service-learning project in partnership with A Studio in the Woods, a nonprofit artist retreat and learning center located in New Orleans. 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