{"id":23,"date":"2008-11-06T13:08:46","date_gmt":"2008-11-06T18:08:46","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/podcast\/?p=23"},"modified":"2008-11-06T13:08:46","modified_gmt":"2008-11-06T18:08:46","slug":"conversation-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/conversation-3\/","title":{"rendered":"Conversation #3: Personal Problems"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"Marcia<\/div>\n

A conversation with Dr. Marcia Rossi<\/a> of Tuskegee University<\/a> about teaching, learning, and dealing with personal problems of students.<\/p>\n

Download Conversation #3<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Transcript<\/strong><\/p>\n

H: Hello, today I\u2019m speaking with Dr. Marcia Rossi from Tuskegee University, she received her PhD in experimental Psychology with an emphasis on learning and behavior analysis from Auburn University. She collaborates with faculty and aerospace science engineering on research projects relating to human factors in flight training and visualization training. She teaches Introduction to Psychology, Theories of Learning, Human Factor Psychology and Social Psychology among other courses and she is responsible for installing the Psi Chi Chapter at Tuskegee University, which is a National Honor Society in Psychology and she still serves as its adviser. Recently Dr. Rossi has written a chapter entitled \u201cHelping Students with their Personal Problems: Should I Help and How?\u201d Welcome Dr. Rossi.<\/p>\n

R: I thank you for having me.<\/p>\n

H: What I want to do is we\u2019re going to focus today on this chapter. I think it\u2019s such an important issue dealing with student problems and student issues, and it\u2019s one that we usually in graduate school that we don\u2019t get trained on at all, and I thought we could start by just asking you, how did you get interested in this topic?<\/p>\n

R: Well that\u2019s a good question, I guess it has risen out of basically my work here at Tuskegee University and being a faculty member and working with students and just the kind of problems that they have and tending to come to me and talk. I thought there might be some need for that, and then I was requested by Dr. Buskist to write a chapter on that after a discussion he and I had.<\/p>\n

H: Oh okay was there anything in particular or a particular incident that you could share with us that \u2014 of course being anonymous \u2014 that gave you some expertise in this area or interest in this area to get to the point to write a chapter?<\/p>\n

R: Well I\u2019m not sure that I can think of a particular incident, I think it\u2019s just been a number of incidents. And you know the way that I have reacted to them and the number of discussions that I have had with them that he thought I would be a good person to write a chapter on this.<\/p>\n

H: Oh okay very good, and I guess this is a broad question to get us into the chapter, when should faculty get involved with student personal problems?<\/p>\n

R: Okay so that\u2019s the big question, well I think it depends there\u2019s a lot of factors that go into that, and it depends upon what you mean by personal problems. So one of the things I talked about in the chapter is the different kinds of problems that students might have including academic problems, relationship problems such as breaking up with a boyfriend or girlfriend or having problems with their roommates or you know parents things like that. Of course the academic problems, having financial problems which is increasingly a problem, and then nowadays we\u2019re having more and more students that have health related kinds of issues, and so the issue of when should you get involved kinds of depends to some extent on what kind of a problem you\u2019re dealing with. And so that\u2019s one of the first things to do is try to identify the kind of a problem.<\/p>\n

H: Thank you for clarifying those kind of different categories as you see them, why would the type of problem be a issue with whether you get involved or not \u2014 how do you see that as leading into that?<\/p>\n

R: Well let\u2019s say you\u2019re an academic adviser and a student comes to with an academic problem, then of course it\u2019s your responsibility to deal with it, and different people have different ideas about the extent that they should go to dealing with problems, so that\u2019s another issue as well. But there\u2019s certain responsibilities we have, and so if you\u2019re an academic adviser and a student has an academic problem then it\u2019s definitely your responsibility, but sometimes students come to their academic adviser for other problems, and that\u2019s what often is the case. As well they will come to a professor or their academic adviser, and they don\u2019t know who else to turn to, and so then in terms of getting involved, you know, there\u2019s certain things you might go through to decide how involved you should be.<\/p>\n

H: Okay besides the type of problem, any other things for that big question about when to get involved?<\/p>\n

R: Well again, it kind of depends upon what kind of problem it is, and what you see is how you can help. I mean one of the first things that I say is, first try to figure out the nature of the problem, and even when sometimes a student may come to you, and it sounds like it\u2019s an academic problem, then it turns out that they maybe they might come to you and say \u201cwell should I drop this class?\u201d And you start talking about that, and then you get into a little bit more of a discussion about why they\u2019re having trouble, and it turns out that maybe you have an idea they have a learning disability. So now you need to get involved as their adviser because you need to say, okay you know \u201chave you had this type of problem before?\u201d or \u201cdo you have this same kind of problem in your other class? what are some similar classes?\u201d You know, try to identify what other courses that they are having problems in and see if you can see some sort of a pattern, and if you see that they\u2019re having problems with certain kinds of courses, then you can make referrals to try to address that. And if you determine it\u2019s a learning disability then they need to be referred to get tested so they can get special services. <\/p>\n

H: I think one thing when I was reading your chapter, one thing that I find so intriguing about this topic anyways is those more gray area type problems. And I also wonder if there are gender issues here, you know, as a female faculty member, early on in my teaching career when I was younger, I would get students, female students coming to me with more of the personal problems, relationship problems, and I really struggled with what\u2019s my role here. You know, I don\u2019t want to do any damage, I\u2019m not trained in dealing with those types of problems, so I wonder if you could talk me through a scenario like that, in terms of like you just did with the academic example.<\/p>\n

R: Okay well I think the first thing I would try to do is listen to them and ask them questions and not judgmental questions. One of the guidelines I have in my chapter is to be open and non-judgmental and listen to the term of the nature of the problem. And so if they come to and their talking about their particular problem try to see where they\u2019re coming from, try to understand what specifically is the problem. And you're right, as a female and as a psychologist I tend to get a lot of students that come to me, you know, so they come with female problems as well as coming to a psychology professor because they think that they can talk to psychology professors a lot of times. And you don\u2019t have to be in psychology, sometimes they come to others who they just feel they can trust, and so, you know, the first thing to do is just take some time and listen to the student and try to be empathetic and hear what they\u2019re having to say. Students have come with pregnancy issues and different kind of concerns like that, and you know it\u2019s not that you\u2019re necessarily trying to advise them about matters that you don\u2019t feel you qualified to advise, but really just kind of listen to them because they really just sometimes need another adult that they can trust. And here they are, you know, most of them are away from home, maybe don\u2019t have as much contact with family members, or maybe it\u2019s something they don\u2019t feel like they can talk to a family member about, and so here they are bringing it to you. So that\u2019s a situation where you know it\u2019s a lot for them to actually come to you and open up, and so you really need to be careful about how you just listen to that and try to identify what they\u2019re saying and what the actual issue is.<\/p>\n

H: In a situation like that \u2014 let me reverse the question a bit \u2014 when is a time you recommend not<\/em> helping, you know, not in the academic realm but in a more personal realm?<\/p>\n

R: Right, well it depends upon what you do to help. Again there\u2019s several things you can do to help, and one of the first things you can do is to make referrals, and so if you\u2019re listening \u2014 and to me that\u2019s not really helping so much \u2014 if you\u2019re just listening and then you make a referral. I mean, I think different people have different boundaries about where they think they should help and where they shouldn\u2019t help, so I think it\u2019s everybody\u2019s responsibility when a student comes to you, that you should help in the sense of talking to them and listening to them and trying to hear what they have to say. If you don\u2019t personally feel comfortable in going much beyond that, maybe your own particular issue and your own particular boundary that you want to draw the line. But at least everybody should be I think willing to listen to what the student has to say and to try and understand that particular problem. And then in the situations like you\u2019re talking about that are more serious, you know, if it\u2019s something that\u2019s definitely a serious issue, then you may need to make a referral to them. If they\u2019re having depression or suicidal tendencies or medical kinds of issues then you know the best thing to do is to try to refer them to the appropriate resource.<\/p>\n

H: Okay okay yeah it seems like, I\u2019m a psychologist as well and so potentially psychologists are more aware of boundary issues than other people, faculty in other discipline. It seems like sometimes I talk to them and I fell like, oh I want to be a little gentle with the student, you know, I know my limitations may be a little more than other faculty do. You mentioned boundaries, and I wonder if your boundaries have changed over time? Your personal boundaries \u2014 have you noticed them loosening or tightening or has it changed over time in your teaching?<\/p>\n

R: Good question, I don\u2019t know. We all have different constraints so one boundary is how much time do you have to spend, and that\u2019s the reality. And a lot of faculty are very busy, and I\u2019ve been serving as department head for the past year, so that\u2019s constrained my time more. And so that you know that\u2019s the main boundary issue I have is really a matter of time, and I will definitely take time to talk to the student and try to help them. But I may not be able to sit in my office and talk to them day after day after day, you know, if they keep coming back. But in terms of other kinds of boundaries, I don\u2019t really know that I have any real change in that, and if it takes talking to a student time and time again then I will. And so I haven\u2019t really had a big change in that although sometimes I guess, over time, you get better at recognizing the nature of the problem, you know, at an earlier stage in the conversation. And so when they come to you now, you can get to the core of it a little bit sooner \u2014 that might be a difference.<\/p>\n

H: At any time because \u2014 that\u2019s interesting to hear you say, you know, okay multiple times working with students, multiple times and problems and kind of helping them. Have you ever experienced any kind of conflict of interest with that, in terms of your administration or, you know, deans or department chairs feeling like you were too involved or that it was a topic that a faculty member shouldn\u2019t have gotten involved in? Have you ever had any of those situations?<\/p>\n

R: I\u2019ve never had any of that, and I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s just the way that I tend to interact with the students or what it is exactly, but I personally have not ever had any kind of issue with that. And in fact with students sometimes, in regard to the question right before this one, there will be times when I will talk to a student, and I\u2019ll say, we come to some sort of a conclusion, I\u2019ll say \u201clet me know next week how it goes.\" You know, I might ask them to come back to me, and let\u2019s say they\u2019re not even in my class, but they're on campus or they're an advisee. You know, I may run into them and say \u201cwell how did that go, come by and see me,\" and almost a variable of them come by and they let me know if I ask them to.<\/p>\n

H: Do you feel like to some degree your reputation as an emphatic listener is out there, and do you think that increased the number of students that come to you, or do your think it\u2019s just a personality variable that you would have no matter what?<\/p>\n

R: I don\u2019t know that I can really answer that, but I mean I think generally, like you said, I am the adviser for Psi Chi, and now I\u2019m the department head, and so I\u2019m doing a lot of activities in the department. So a lot of the students, you know, do know to come to me with problems, and so, I don\u2019t know which variable you want to attribute it to. <\/p>\n

H: Okay, I want to come back to the guidelines in your chapter in just a moment, because I think those are really interesting. But before we do that, speaking specifically about teaching, so your time in the classroom, do you think the empathy you\u2019ve shown students, the help, and writing this chapter, and thinking about this \u2014 does it change any of the way you relate to students in the classroom or change your teaching dynamic in any way?<\/p>\n

R: I don\u2019t really think it\u2019s changed it, I think I\u2019m more aware of what I been doing, so maybe that\u2019s part of it, and maybe I feel a extra responsibility, not just because of the chapter but just over time. I\u2019ve developed maybe more of an extra sense for responsibility, but being in one institution for a good bit of time, that you just kind of know your role and know where you fit in, I don\u2019t really know.<\/p>\n

H: And just for listeners, how long have you been at Tuskegee? I don\u2019t think I mentioned that.<\/p>\n

R: I think it\u2019s about 17 years.<\/p>\n

H: Okay okay very good. Yeah, I just wondered if it would affect rapport, and I just think those kind of emphatic responses can help those kind of things. What about policies or class policies or class management or those kind of things? Do you think being more aware of students as whole people and who are experiencing problems too have influenced any of those over time?<\/p>\n

R: Well I think yeah in that sense. For example, you know I have policies on my syllabus about late assignments and things and one of my policies, when I first started teaching, one of my policies was that things really couldn\u2019t be late, if they were maybe a day late. And I started having problems with, well, here this student had this death in the family and this student had this serious, you know, situation. And so I came to a conclusion maybe five years ago, or six or seven years ago, that actually talking to a more seasoned faculty member than I at that time who had a policy that they had enacted and I started doing that. And now I try to recommend that to all the faculty in my department that, you know, students sometimes do have legitimate reasons for being late, and there are a lot of personal kinds of problems that get in the way. And, you know, maybe you don\u2019t want to just say okay everything can be late, but you might have a penalty. And my policy has changed to now where it is, is that they can be up to a week late, but they\u2019ll have a letter grade deduction within that week. After that I don\u2019t take it at all, so, you know, I think yes, you're right, over time maybe I have changed in terms of my classroom policies, I\u2019m a little bit more aware today. For example, today we\u2019re at the election, you know, that played into that everybody was excited about the situation, and so that changed what happened in class today. So those things definitely do come into play in the classroom as well.<\/p>\n

H: Yeah it almost sounds like a respect issue as well. You know respecting that students have this life and they\u2019re experiencing things and, you know, that can play out in the classroom.<\/p>\n

R: Right, I mean I think that\u2019s definitely the case. I think the era of the student as being, you know, coming from a family where they generally have all their expenses taken care of and, you know, we have a lot of nontraditional students, students that are working sometimes one and two jobs and sometimes students with families and just like you said it\u2019s a matter of respect. You realize that they have other issues going on, and you have to meet them half way.<\/p>\n

H: Are there any of your colleagues that give you feed back on that as you\u2019re to soft, that\u2019s not the way to go in the real world?<\/p>\n

R: Yeah I get some of that, you're right, I do. I do have some colleagues that think that, and we have discussions within the department as well as externally. Not necessarily people attacking me personally about my views but just in general discussions come up on campus about what is appropriate, what\u2019s inappropriate, and some folks feel like that, you know, we\u2019re being too lenient in some cases. Other, especially the younger faculty realize that students today have a different mindset, and they have a different set of responsibilities as well, so you have to recognize that.<\/p>\n

H: My school is in New Orleans, and so when we evacuated for Katrina and came back that semester I really felt a difference in my teaching, in my dealing with student problems then. You know, you used the word earlier as we were talking, the responsibility<\/em> \u2014 you know, I felt a responsibility for these students who choose to come back, and I really started looking at my policies differently and students differently as a result of that. <\/p>\n

R: Oh yes, and we have a number of students come to Tuskegee from there.<\/p>\n

H: Thank you.<\/p>\n

R: And that we absorbed and, you know, we took them in late in the semester, and the faculty was instructed to work with them, and so we did.<\/p>\n

H: Thank you, thanks for doing that. You mentioned in your chapter you have three guidelines for helping students deal with personal problems, and you mentioned the first one which is the open, nonjudgmental, listen and determine the nature of the problem. I wonder if you would comment on guideline number two which is know the appropriate campus and community resources to make referrals? <\/p>\n

R: Okay and yeah, I can, and let me just go back, if you don\u2019t mind, to that first guideline. One of the things that sometimes, I don\u2019t know if this came out earlier when we were talking, but sometimes when a student comes to you with a particular problem it may not be clear. I mentioned it in the context of learning disabilities but sometimes they may come to you, and it seems like the problem is one particular kind of a problem, and really it\u2019s something else. And so, you know, that\u2019s where asking them questions and listening to them carefully really helps you kind of sort out the exact nature of the problem. And so that\u2019s an important thing, not just to take it at face value when they say to you \u2014 that\u2019s the point I\u2019m trying to make, is not to take it at face value. When they say, I\u2019m having this particular problem, to kind of go into depth, just take a few minutes, it only takes five minutes really to get them to talk about things and figure out exactly the nature of it. And so once you do that, then you\u2019re better able to make the referral.<\/p>\n

Getting to the second guideline, if it is a academic issue there are tutorials on campus, for example most schools do have an office for students, student support services, where then can go for help getting diagnosed with learning disabilities and getting special kinds of treatments and getting accommodations so that the faculty are required to give them accommodations. There\u2019s community resources that you need to know about, you know, most campuses have a campus counsel center, and if they don\u2019t there\u2019s possibly some community service agency that can help them with counseling. So knowing the kinds of resources that you have available, you know, to help the students, is an important thing. <\/p>\n

H: As you\u2019re saying that I\u2019m realizing that would be a great thing for new faculty orientation, you know, to include in there, especially people who are new to the community.<\/p>\n

R: Right.<\/p>\n

H: And don\u2019t really know the resources that are there.<\/p>\n

R: You are exactly right.<\/p>\n

H: Okay and then the third guideline, recognize that there are limits on how much you can help.<\/p>\n

R: Right, that\u2019s I think where a lot of people, you know, think okay you know I\u2019ve done what I can, what else can I do. And everybody has to have there own limit and that\u2019s something that everybody has to determine for themselves, and my feeling is that over time you kind of figure that out, and if you find that you are overwhelmed by student problems, you know, you may have to draw the line a little sooner. But in general I think folks should try to help the students and try to listen to them and try to make the referrals and do what they can, and then at least you feel like you\u2019ve done what you needed to do and that you\u2019ve taken the time to help them try to solve the problem. But everybody does have a limit, and there are times when a student will just want to come back and use you as a friend or a counselor and keep talking to you over and over. And at some point you might have to gently say, \u201cyou need to go on to a therapist, I can\u2019t help you anymore with this.\u201d<\/p>\n

H: I\u2019m thinking about faculty, especially newer faculty who might be struggling with this issue, what are some of the ethical pitfalls that might come up to this, or can you think of any ethical pitfalls or downsides that faculty should watch out for?<\/p>\n

R: Well you don\u2019t want to get into a situation of counseling somebody and trying to provide therapy advice or counseling advice and not be qualified to do so, and so that\u2019s an ethical issue. And of course if you try to assume that responsibility, then you know that\u2019s an ethical issue, and the student follows your advice and ends up hurting themselves or getting hurt or something.<\/p>\n

H: Can you just give an example of what you mean by that, like what that might look like?<\/p>\n

R: Well, if someone comes to you, and it seems that they have a mental illness for example, and maybe they\u2019re suicidal. And you continue to try to handle it yourself, and you're not qualified, and you\u2019re not providing them the resources and the services that they truly need and, you know, something may happen, and if that does then obviously that\u2019s an ethical issue.<\/p>\n

H: And I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve dealt with anything that severe, like suicidal ideation or that sort of thing, but that does happen on campuses, faculty do have to deal with that. For something that severe, have you ever documented the help you\u2019ve given or the conversation or touch base with your chair about it so that other people know what\u2019s going on?<\/p>\n

R: I don\u2019t even know, I\u2019m trying to think back, we have not had many of those conversations, I don\u2019t know that I\u2019ve ever had a case here with a student that was suicidal. I mean, I do know it happens at other institutions, and I\u2019m sure it has happened here, but I just don\u2019t know any particular cases of students coming to me. But way back, you know, a number of years ago I had folks that were very depressed and had referred them for counseling and so on, so I\u2019m trying to think of any other kind of issue.<\/p>\n

H: I just think new faculty might be, you know, trying to establish their own ethical boundaries for themselves and figuring out their role, getting their own, you know, getting mentoring on this on their own. Letting their department chair know what\u2019s going on might just kind of cover them a little bit, make them feel more comfortable.<\/p>\n

R: Right, no, I think so, and I mean I think that\u2019s an appropriate place for workshop on faculty to recognize. We were talking internally on campus about this, that faculty need to be more aware of the kinds of mental illness and mental health issues that are occurring, and of course, you know, the cases of the shootings and so on. Being able to recognize students that might be a threat to themselves or someone else is an important skill that people need to have, so I think that\u2019s definitely a worthwhile kind of a thing to have a workshop on that.<\/p>\n

H: Yeah cause it\u2019s so out of the realm of our training for teaching.<\/p>\n

R: Exactly.<\/p>\n

H: As we wrap up here I wonder if there\u2019s any last piece of advice you would want to offer faculty members in any stage that\u2019s dealing with this issue?<\/p>\n

R: Well I guess I\u2019d like to say that, you know, all faculty go through these kind of things, and one of the things I would like for people to keep in mind is, do keep in mind that the student is coming to you because in some way they trust you to try to help them. And so to recognize that and respect them as an individual and do your best to try to help them without crossing any kind of boundaries or going over the line with your responsibilities or prying into their life. You know, you don\u2019t want to have somebody that\u2019s prying into your life and the student's life and that sort of thing. But certainly just remember that all faculty go through these kind of things, but then again students go through these things too, and so we need to try to be as respectful as we can of the students and try to help them to the extent we can.<\/p>\n

H: Well thank you, thank you Dr. Rossi. I appreciate your time talking to me today.<\/p>\n

R: Thank you, I enjoyed it very much.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A conversation with Dr. Marcia Rossi of Tuskegee University about teaching, learning, and dealing with personal problems of students. 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We have to help our students learn how to develop healthy habits which will improve not only their academics but of course their mental health in general... If we're going to teach our students then I believe\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Old Podcast Archive (\u22642018)"","block_context":{"text":"Old Podcast Archive (\u22642018)","link":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/topic\/podcast\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1660,"url":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/conversation-19\/","url_meta":{"origin":23,"position":1},"title":"Conversation #19: Interteaching","author":"Bart Everson","date":"April 17, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Download Conversation #19 A conversation with Bryan Saville of James Madison University, on teaching, learning and interteaching. Links for this episode: a sample record sheet a prep guide from Dr. Saville's Research Methods course (Prep Guide #13) interteaching article from the Psychology Teacher Network practice prep guide for the interteaching\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Old Podcast Archive (\u22642018)"","block_context":{"text":"Old Podcast Archive (\u22642018)","link":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/topic\/podcast\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":8118,"url":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/conversation-32\/","url_meta":{"origin":23,"position":2},"title":"Conversation #32: Time Management","author":"Bart Everson","date":"September 10, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"Download Conversation #32 A conversation with Roben Torosyan on teaching, learning, and time management. Are we allowed to swear on this podcast? Roben Torosyan has held full-time appointments at Columbia University, Pace University, New School University, Fairfield University, and since 2012 as director of teaching and learning at Bridgewater State\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Old Podcast Archive (\u22642018)"","block_context":{"text":"Old Podcast Archive (\u22642018)","link":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/topic\/podcast\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":12789,"url":"https:\/\/cat.xula.edu\/food\/attitude-adjustment\/","url_meta":{"origin":23,"position":3},"title":"Attitude Adjustment","author":"Jeremy Tuman","date":"September 18, 2018","format":false,"excerpt":"Writing in the\u00a0Journal of Service Learning in Higher Education\u00a0in January of 2018, Dr. T. Andrew Carswell of Gannon University, a Catholic university in Erie, Pennsylvania, describes a research project undertaken to discover the capacity of service-learning courses to change student attitudes about poverty. 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Dr. Marcia Chatelain, previously on the faculty of the University of Oklahoma's Joe C. and Carole Kerr McClendon Honors College, researches a wide array of issues in African-American history. 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